tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post3805906645049729071..comments2024-03-06T10:39:37.128+00:00Comments on Tania Writes: The hopeless hopeful silenceTania Hershmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15781460794034586895noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-80669465853226869382011-10-13T16:42:54.693+01:002011-10-13T16:42:54.693+01:00Carys, thank you!
WRW - sorry to hear about your...Carys, thank you!<br /><br />WRW - sorry to hear about your waiting waiting, if it's been 8 weeks then I think you should email again. Grrr...Tania Hershmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781460794034586895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-79188229076609883452011-10-13T13:46:40.141+01:002011-10-13T13:46:40.141+01:00Wow. Yes. I too am waiting waiting waiting. I thin...Wow. Yes. I too am waiting waiting waiting. I think it's time I fired off another 'Do you want it or not?' email!<br />Great post, Tania. I empathise.Group 8https://www.blogger.com/profile/07924947352624027079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-23080081237363497672011-09-29T11:59:23.977+01:002011-09-29T11:59:23.977+01:00Loved your honest, heartfelt post Tania.Loved your honest, heartfelt post Tania.Caryshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01742938391561952220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-51733741574027682602011-09-28T15:11:23.159+01:002011-09-28T15:11:23.159+01:00Tom, great to see you - I will never forget "...Tom, great to see you - I will never forget "fugacious"! Just as lovely as that quote, thank you.<br /><br />Alison, I totally agree about the self-fulfilling prophecy, it seems to make such little sense. To me it's like saying "People only like large cakes, small cakes will never sell" instead of trying to interest those who love cake in cake of all shapes and sizes!<br /><br />V - that is just plain rude, and I totally echo Oscar's very succint response. Yup. <br /><br />Grogan,<br />so sorry to hear about your friend being on the receiving end of such things, too. I know of a similar experience although backwards - an book declared excellent by several publishers then turned down because its writer was female. Madness, eh?<br /><br />Hayley, I can't help but feel that if a browser in a bookshop were to see that the bookshop has given short story collections their own display (as Sara does in the excellent Brighton Waterstones!) then they may feel differently about them, see that they stand alone, they are not mini-novels or long poems without line breaks. They are what they are, their own thing. They deserve their own shelves!<br /><br />Jamie, I really don't mind waiting, honestly I don't. It's the idea of waiting with no end in sight that freaked me out - the thought that maybe the waiting would never come to an end, even with a form rejection. That's surely a form of torture, endless waiting!<br /><br />Rebecca, thank you for your honesty too, sometimes we have to come out from behind the "chin up" and just say how we feel. Not wallowing is also good!Tania Hershmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781460794034586895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-63556611427253822152011-09-28T14:19:11.846+01:002011-09-28T14:19:11.846+01:00Oh gosh, where to start?
I love the honesty in th...Oh gosh, where to start?<br /><br />I love the honesty in this post. I also find it really annoying that short stories are not worthy of much attention. As time goes on I am coming to love them more (as a reader and a writer) if I am honest.<br /><br />As for the agents (and publishers) who say if you don't hear from us, blah blah blah... Whatever happened to good old fashioned manners? I heard from an agent yesterday (7 weeks, 4 days, and they say they try and get back in 6 weeks). It was a form rejection. But it offers a sense of closure. I would rather know it's a definite "no" than been left hanging. It only takes two seconds to copy and paste a standard email into a new window.<br /><br />Normally I would be saying keep smiling, chin up, etc etc. But as I'm in the-day-after-the-rejection zone, I can only really say what I am trying to think myself. Try not to focus on that one thing too much, there are always other projects to be working on, avenues to take. <br /><br />Instead of wallowing, I've been looking at publishers websites and checking out some new books for inspiration. I think we also have to have a sense of determination in this business. Never give up, and we will find a way eventually.Rebecca Eminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01931904595437049369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-28040007369096227152011-09-28T12:44:44.667+01:002011-09-28T12:44:44.667+01:00Hi Tania,
Interesting post, which highlights an in...Hi Tania,<br />Interesting post, which highlights an indemic sluggishness right across the publishing industry. Everything always seems to take 3 months, 6 months, forever!<br />Though, this just seems to be the way it is. Agents and publishers are very busy, editors are piled high with manuscripts....there just isn't anything that we can do as writers, except wait, and while we're waiting, do some more writing :o)Jamie Guineyhttp://www.jamieguiney.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-49050581711543796422011-09-28T11:46:22.122+01:002011-09-28T11:46:22.122+01:00I think we can take some comfort from the indicati...I think we can take some comfort from the indications that those of us who do like short stories are very passionate about them. <br /><br />The point that poetry gets its own section in bookshops is interesting - if short stories were displayed in the same way, would more be sold? Most of the short story collections I've bought in person (as opposed to online) have been found amongst the novels in my local bookshop, which is a fraction of the size of even smaller branches of Waterstones. I simply cannot browse the same way in other bookshops because it would take me hours; instead, I can only skim over most of the titles. <br /><br />I think I would buy more short story collections if I could access them all in one section. Indeed, I do buy more collections from Amazon than anywhere else, but it doesn't allow you to browse in the same way as a physical bookshop. I think a short story section would lead to me buying more collections from authors I haven't heard of, since they'd be easier to find. <br /><br />Would a separate section encourage more people (i.e. those who usually only buy novels) to buy short stories? I'm not sure, but I suspect that increasing the visibility of short stories would help them to become more popular. I didn't really read short stories until I was in my early twenties and, several years later, I'm pretty much obsessed! I suspect that other readers would discover they love short stories, if only they'd try them, and a devoted section in bookshops is one of the strategies that could help to achieve greater awareness and consumption of short stories.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-73524800837675205292011-09-28T11:23:26.402+01:002011-09-28T11:23:26.402+01:00A friend has just been through a similar experienc...A friend has just been through a similar experience with an agent. She has written a ‘self help’ type book, which touches on a subject that is highly marketable in terms of its potential PR value.<br /><br />She was hugely encouraged by two firm bites from credible commissioning editors (not bad for a first time writer). Unfortunately all contact ceased when they received her bio. <br /><br />A male agent whom she met was brutal (he would say honest) in his candour, when he surmised, “Publishers prefer this type of thing from a foxy young babe.”<br /><br />Publishers are more often than not looking for potential celebrity in their writers. My hope is that the current changes will go some way to right this wrong. <br /><br />Or maybe I’m just a hopeless idealist?Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06954435244104789364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-44930626708907850842011-09-28T11:18:47.211+01:002011-09-28T11:18:47.211+01:00All I can add, Vanessa, is that you were well out ...All I can add, Vanessa, is that you were well out of that potential agent's slimy grasp. He was clearly a loser in life despite his seeming status in the 'agenting' field. Why do I say this? 1) He seemingly bases his judgement of literary ability on shallow physical attributes, and, worst of all in my book (see what I did there? ;0) ), if he must employ those criteria, 2) He doesn't recognise a life-experienced, feisty and cuddly peach when he sees one.<br /><br />In short, the man's a prat.<br /><br />Best<br /><br />Oscar xxxOscar Windsor-Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11297840557697185445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-26047959201237828252011-09-28T07:56:43.845+01:002011-09-28T07:56:43.845+01:00I think Sarah H touches on a very good point - the...I think Sarah H touches on a very good point - the effect on the writer if a carefully put together query, sent with some trepidation (always) just goes into a black hole.<br /><br />I know one helluva lot of writers, from absolute beginners through to the very well published, recognised names. I know none who don't care deeply about what they do, and for whom treatment like this from the very people they need to facilitate getting their work out there, in conventional processes, is damaging. How many do I know who are occasionally laid low by stress, self-doubt or depression? probably most of them.<br /><br />The daft thing is, the people they are treating so crassly are the very ones from whom these people might make a living, in the future, even if the submission/query in question wasn't the one to make them money.<br /><br />We all know the world of publishing is going through a real upheaval, and the rules are being re-drawn fast and frequently. What is this treatment going to do but push more and more writers down the self-publishing route? maybe thats what they want - cant be arsed seems to be the new professional motto for some.<br /><br />However - just to put this in context. I was treated absolutely appallingly by a well known agent some years back. having crawled all over me on email, when he met me, I was obviously not quite what he'd imagined, physically! Older. Chubbier. Who knows? <br /><br />He left a very nice event without bothering to say goodbye, or more importantly, to take with him the envelope containing my ms, which he'd requested. (!)<br /><br />Look. It happens. We have to get over it. We have to toughen up, cry quietly then act like we don't care. Like I had to. I did care. But there was nowt I could do about being my age.<br /><br />The famous agent? There is a lot he could do about his rudeness. Karma, sir. It will bite you on the bum one day.<br /><br />vxxVanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09088301040602803489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-64584305356513065622011-09-27T22:00:29.611+01:002011-09-27T22:00:29.611+01:00Oh dear, I used the wrong 'there'. I hope ...Oh dear, I used the wrong 'there'. I hope there are no agents looking, I'll never get taken on.;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-78995540556883806772011-09-27T21:58:03.299+01:002011-09-27T21:58:03.299+01:00Lots of comments here and I agree completely that ...Lots of comments here and I agree completely that the no reply policy has no excuse, there are plenty of ways that email groups and automatic responses can be set up, anything else is bad manners. <br /><br />On the short story front, it is a bugbear of mine that their are so few outlets for short story collections and that sometimes they have to be hidden as novels. I think that this 'the short story never sells' is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Perhaps traditionally it hasn't but now we are in an era where the personal story is king, where convenience and accessibility are important and where small vignettes of truth and humanity are needed more than ever. I have read a great many people and for me, your writing stands with the best of them and that fact will win out in the end. You are writing what is important and what you love, like all of us writers we need to take it down to the smaller level, the beauty of a particular sentence, the way our work touches someone are things worth celebrating. Every time we write we exhibit hope in the act itself. Publishing has no guarantees but what you have already accomplished in that sphere has already added beauty to the literary world. <br /><br />I could go on and on but perhaps I should save my energy for fiction!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-58454400006996844472011-09-27T21:21:59.798+01:002011-09-27T21:21:59.798+01:00Was lovely to see you at SW. I'd like to think...Was lovely to see you at SW. I'd like to think the story will always find a way, a forum, an outlet, regardless of trends and whims in publishing. I interviewed Philip O'Ceallaigh recently, who put it rather beautifully:<br /><br />'Stories are a basic human need. Not in the sense that food is, we don't need them to keep our hearts beating. But in the sense that as long as our hearts are beating we need to hear them, and there will be people called upon to make them.'TOM VOWLERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00436338454781485164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-68943496220662478192011-09-27T18:52:37.165+01:002011-09-27T18:52:37.165+01:00Diane, very good point about the lit mag editors w...Diane, very good point about the lit mag editors who don't get paid for what they do. There are some amazing editors who respond within 24 hours, perhaps many of them are also writers and they know how that waiting waiting waiting feels. Yes, it's all about a little respect. Just a little. For all artists. Maybe Canada is the place to be!Tania Hershmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781460794034586895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-29844406368726940362011-09-27T18:42:11.505+01:002011-09-27T18:42:11.505+01:00You're welcome! I don't really have any re...You're welcome! I don't really have any resentment against the agents, they after all just want to get something that will sell as well as something that is good quality. But not responding is certainly bad form and to make it a policy? Puts one on the Enemy List, as far as I am concerned!Susanhttp://joyofwriting.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-70723099634752103432011-09-27T18:38:47.001+01:002011-09-27T18:38:47.001+01:00Hi Grogan, you might be right about the new career...Hi Grogan, you might be right about the new career options, but I'm certainly not calling for that! I like your idea about writers and readers taking control of the market, that may well be happening.<br /><br />Susan, I'm not sure what the situation is, but I have enough friends who have found representation through the quality of their writing alone that it does cheer me. None for a short story collection, though. I won't name names here, because I've been told that I should wait until at least 12 weeks before assuming a non-response, so we'll see what happens. Thanks for the recommendation of McGahern's story!Tania Hershmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781460794034586895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-88858408454200860122011-09-27T18:28:53.170+01:002011-09-27T18:28:53.170+01:00Tania, I'm sorry to hear you were treated that...Tania, I'm sorry to hear you were treated that way. It's well-known that unless you have some secret, unspecified "in" to the Establishment - i.e. the right patron at the right time - it is almost impossible latterly to make one's name as a short story writer. This may be due to demand, or marketing, I am not sure which. I have decided to concentrate on making a bit of occasional extra cash from my stories rather than wait for the chance to publish a collection. I'm happier that way and a little richer too.<br /><br />It is wrong for the agents not to reply and I think it would not be inappropriate to mention who would give such a response so that we can submit elsewhere.<br /><br />Also I am wondering if the postmodernist climate has fostered a mannered reluctance on people to *tell a tale* the old-fashioned way, thereby rarefying short stories more and making them clever-clever rather than gripping. I wonder if as writers we're being encouraged to look down on a simple story, well-told. I hope it is not controversial to say this. Many of the greatest, fiercest most powerful tales have been short ones. McGahern's "Korea" being one I mention again and again.<br /><br />I hope you soon regain your joy in writing what you are called to do, Tania, and to hell with the bad guys!Susanhttp://joyofwriting.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-65489370158071605412011-09-27T18:20:23.288+01:002011-09-27T18:20:23.288+01:00Thanks for a great post.
Publishing is in such a...Thanks for a great post. <br /><br />Publishing is in such a state of flux at the moment that agents are probably prioritising alternative career options, rather than reading manuscripts.<br /><br />As an avid reader of short stories I’ve always felt aggrieved by the dearth of decent collections, aware they have little commercial value to a (traditional) publisher. <br /><br />There is a growing market for good terse tales – writers/readers need to take control and shape it.Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06954435244104789364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-33096138135410536252011-09-27T17:38:15.780+01:002011-09-27T17:38:15.780+01:00Tania, thank you so much for writing this.
I can ...Tania, thank you so much for writing this.<br /><br />I can accept a non-response from an unpaid lit-mag team or editor who do it for love ... though a quick form response saying no, would, as you say, allow some closure and let you move on.<br /><br />However, 'no response, means no', an attitude adopted by many professional agents (and publishers), is arrogant. Whatever we write, poetry, short story collections or novels - we're (often highly) educated professionals.<br /><br />The agent's role these days is not to tell us whether we're good enough, we (most of us) know that. What we're asking when we submit our work to agents is if they like what we do (often subjective) enough to try and find us a publisher.<br /><br />If we approach them with respect, then why not expect this to be reciprocated. A simple 'sorry, but no' at a basic level, would suffice. <br /><br />Without artists there would be no galleries ... Without writers there would be no agents, editors or publishers. A nod of respect to those who do the long and often hard business of creating work is not too much to ask.<br /><br />Having said all that, I'm optimistic that things will change, that the world of writing (in whatever form) is alive, and not only well but thriving - perhaps more so beyond the UK - where the short form especially is 'allowed' to be much more experimental. In the meantime, I look forward to seeing your as yet unpublished stories/collections in the near future.Diane Beckerhttp://notdesignedtojuggle.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-26633936542197734902011-09-27T15:56:12.801+01:002011-09-27T15:56:12.801+01:00Steve, great to meet you, thanks for commenting! I...Steve, great to meet you, thanks for commenting! I am not a poet, but I do think that poetry, while not hitting high sales, does get more respect - whole sections of bookshops, and so many events. I doubt that Radio 4 would even consider cutting Poetry Please -well, I hope not! I was stunned at the turnout for the TS Eliot shortlist prize readings in London earlier in the year - 1000s of people! And at least it's a given that poets don't need agents, the relationship between poets and poetry publishers seems to be clearer, simpler. And poets don't get asked when they are writing a novel... unless I'm wrong. Not to diminish your comment at all, I may be getting it all wrong! I love your comment about short stories and meditation, it often feels like that for me too. <br /><br />Tracy, great to meet you too. I will check out your rant! Yes, it's really about communication, clarity.Tania Hershmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781460794034586895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-77766728563440297232011-09-27T15:47:12.049+01:002011-09-27T15:47:12.049+01:00Totally agree with everything you write in this bl...Totally agree with everything you write in this blog. Firstly, I am always reading an anthology of short stories (either bought or borrowed) along with novels. There is so much talent out there writing short stories when you start to look for it. As a writer I find these anthologies stir the creative juices far more than any other media.<br />Secondly, I have written a similar rant on my own blog in respect to "non response policy". In this age of automatic email responses why not simply add a timeframe - so if 6-8 weeks is stated for review period then post this you know for certain your cherished baby ended up in the digital wastebin. This policy can only encourage multiple submissions, which so many publishers/agents hate.<br /><br />Good luck and keep submitting.<br />TracyTracyFellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10224475173136774530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-71337027517236867682011-09-27T15:46:02.662+01:002011-09-27T15:46:02.662+01:00If short stories are the graveyard, then God knows...If short stories are the graveyard, then God knows how poets must feel. <br /><br />Six feet under x 2?<br /><br />All literary forms are on a vocational continuum I feel, with short stories and even more so poetry, at the latter end of that continuum. The continuum also has a monetary aspect to it, and like a lot of vocational activities, they're not massively saleable. Writing short stories feels more like meditating than anything else (to me at least). <br /><br />As far as agents go, perhaps its just becoming easier for them in our virtual, non-lettery age, to forget that flesh and blood human beings are the sender of those email queries?Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07277558808855958379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-33173799149873497352011-09-27T15:43:59.883+01:002011-09-27T15:43:59.883+01:00Bev, I don't think it's too strong at all,...Bev, I don't think it's too strong at all, these are things I worry about. I hear from artist friends who go to speak in schools and the first question they get is "How much money do you make?". It's a shame. <br /><br />Sarah, I know you know all about the terrible kind of silence, am feeling for everyone in that position too. We need to keep reminding each other to both Write Through, and Fail Better. Wise words.Tania Hershmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781460794034586895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-35168404923859820002011-09-27T15:33:12.830+01:002011-09-27T15:33:12.830+01:00As always, V says it best. I echo everything she s...As always, V says it best. I echo everything she says, and will add this: Silence can be a wonderful thing, in its place. But it can also be a terrible, enslaving thing, which our imaginations cram full of shapes that cast long shadows over everything we do. I'm sorry you've had to suffer it. I don't have an answer to it, except to say Write Through. And even that I've been failing at, of late. But I hope to fail better.Sarah Hilaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03379986260169703599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32078352.post-78809655279631670392011-09-27T15:30:43.845+01:002011-09-27T15:30:43.845+01:00Tania,
I couldn't agree more on all points you...Tania,<br />I couldn't agree more on all points you so well enumerate. Respect for writers, respect for actors (not 'stars' but working actors), respect for artists...it doesn't really exist except among 'our own.' This nation as a whole doesn't honor and respect the arts in ways that other countries do with subsidies and focus and the same emphasis that's given to a law degree or a Wall Street internship. Give me a break! Trick down effect results in people saying to their children, "well, you can't make a living as a ..." (writer, actor, artist) and from the get go, one is doomed to fight the current. A damned shame in my opinion and I point my finger to the head of the snake - our government and our society as a *capitalist* whole. Is that too strong? I don't think so.Bev Jacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14394278185384388199noreply@blogger.com